Sugar confusion

[bunnyjadwiga]

Why is it that so many people are so convinced that beet sugar (invented in the Napoleonic era) is *more* ancient and specifically medieval than cane sugar (the original form of sugar)? Why do people think that cane sugar was not available in the middle ages and renaissance?

What can we do to combat this?

Comments

[thatpotteryguy.livejournal.com]

Stab everyone who thinks this?

Stab everyone who thinks this?

[bunnyjadwiga.livejournal.com]

Please don't tempt me to stab anyone... it would be VERY tempting. :)

[pedropadrao.livejournal.com]

Why is it that so many people are so convinced that beet sugar (invented in the Napoleonic era) is *more* ancient and specifically medieval than cane sugar (the original form of sugar)?

My guess is that it's because beets are seen as boring Old World roots, & sugar cane is tropical & exotic-never mind that sugar cane can grow in the lower 48 states & parts of the Mediterranean.

Why do people think that cane sugar was not available in the middle ages and renaissance?

It's the "exotic & tropical" thing. I'm guessing that most Americans think of Hawaii or Puerto Rico when they think of cane sugar, & not Madeira or Sicily, both of which grew the crop. I'd also put it to the abysmally poor education we get about the history of our food.

What can we do to combat this?

Not sure-this is a cultural meme from the general US culture, not a SCAdian artefact.

[beccalynnlaw]

I think TransJordan, when I think cane sugar...but then, I spent a summer digging up 13-16thc. Mamluk sugar jars.

[pedropadrao.livejournal.com]

Lucky you!

[beccalynnlaw]

I know....I am still in the process of scanning all those pictures (this being back before I had a digital camera)...

[anastasiav.livejournal.com]

this

[maziemaus.livejournal.com]

Teach a sugar class? Mini class. Promise sugar sweetened treats so people will come.

[beckishadow.livejournal.com]

Ummm... call Gavan (The Sugar Daddy) to teach it.

Class/Gavan

[bunnyjadwiga.livejournal.com]

We definitely need to get Gavan teaching more. Also, we need to reach people who currently don't take classes.

More exposure to sugarwork in the EK might be helpful.
Izzy, we must get together and experiment!

[beccalynnlaw]

Beat people with sugar canes? Perhaps not.

I suppose teaching is the best option.

[cbpotts.livejournal.com]

I think we should have a confectionary symposium.

Preferably in my kitchen, although I'll allow that there may be locations more convenient to the rest of the world. But some of those Dragon Dormant folks can cook like crazy...I bet we could lure them to come.

(Tempts you with crash space full of good books)

[wombatgirl.livejournal.com]

We just kind of did in Calontir. We had a theme track at our cooking symposium in April of sugarwork and confectionary.

Gavan MacBane's research

[ren_flora.livejournal.com]

A few years ago, Gavan MacBane did some impressive, archaeology-based research on medieval sugar processing in Cyprus. He presented at Pennsic a couple times - he even brought a "sugar loaf" shaped like, well, a sugarloaf. His article is in the Florilegium, with pictures:
http://www.florilegium.org/files/FOOD-SWEETS/Cypriot-Sugr-art.html

Re: Gavan MacBane's research

[herveus.livejournal.com]

I saw his display at an EK A&S thingy that happened shortly before his Laurel. I spent a fair bit of time chatting with him (getting smarter about sugar all the while).

Way cool stuff.

[selyrabbit.livejournal.com]

Bad Jadwiga, I now have another research project on a small scale but I just love to put out things like sugar cane.

[ghislainedel.livejournal.com]

I was one of those people until I posted my ignorance and was informed. In my case I only knew of sugar cane as a Caribbean product while I knew sugar beets grew in the fields we passed when I lived in Germany. It seemed like a clear New World vs. Old World thing to me. It never occurred to me that sugar cane might grow around the Mediterranean.

[madrun.livejournal.com]

It's from India, people!

[mistresshuette.livejournal.com]

Actually, sugar cane originated in Papua New Guinea and spread very quickly to China and India. The earliest mentions of sugar cane are in ancient texts prior to the 7th century BC.

... because they're ignorant?

[strawberrykaren.livejournal.com]

There's several Persian images too, but just to focus on western Europe, there's the sugar-merchants in the Tacuinum Sanitatis in BNF Nouvelle acquisition latine 1673, fol. 81, c. 1390-1400 and ÖNB Codex Vindobonensis, series nova 2644, c. 1370-1400, as well as several images of sugar cane. (FWIW, here's the text that accompanies the Tacuinum images.)

And references to sugar, sugar candy, sugar loaves, etc.

From Trevisa's translation of Bartholomaeus Anglicus' De proprietatibus rerum: "Sugure ... comeþ of certeyn canes and reedes þat groweþ in leyes and pondes faste by þe ryuer nilus, & þe jus of þilke canes hatte Canna mellis, and of þat jus is sugre y-made."

And Baking with Sugar in Renaissance Germany, and The Sweetest of Smiles. And ... a whole bunch of recipes.

You wanna put this all into a webpage/article, or shall I? ;) (It's more up your alley, really; if it were just a material culture thing, I'd be all over it.)

[auntiero.livejournal.com]

Why? Because we grew up with the myth that cane sugar was prohibitively expensive so it must have been hard to come by in period or available only to the very wealthy.

What can we do to combat this? Well... food is not my area, but I would think classes on cane sugar, it's uses and availability in period, and the mythology of cane sugar would be the way to get the word out. Maybe an article or 12 in a CA or a TI?

[pedropadrao.livejournal.com]

Hang on! The definition of expensive is going to vary. Certainly, it'd be easy to come by in Tehran or Lisbon circa 1470, but it'd be a whole different story in Stockholm circa 600.

[auntiero.livejournal.com]

Exactly! This is why I think education in various forms would be the best way to change people's thinking about sugar.

[amazon-42.livejournal.com]

Jadwiga, why do you insist on trying to educate SCAdians? It can't be done. Just put tin foil hats on them all and have done.

[snooness2]

Because I can buy beet sugar in my grocery store, and I'd have to go looking for cane sugar.
Besides beets=sugar
(this is my sarcastic voice)

Non-sacrastically:
It's because people really don't understand agriculture anymore, let alone pre-industrial agriculture.
I just finished pointing out to someone that honey would potentially contain beeswax if it's not refined like what you buy in the store. (Arguh!)
Though 1590 - beetroot syurp extraction. Industral scale 1801.

[landverhuizer.livejournal.com]

amusingly, I found it far easier to find cane sugar most of my life. Funny thing was, that when I first tried beet sugar, sometime in my 20's, I thought the sugar in the store was stored funny or something happened to it... until I noticed this new brand was beet sugar :-O :-O

[snooness2]

I live in the land where beet sugar is more common then cane sugar (about 4 hours away from one of the major processing centers for sugar beets).
;)
It does taste very different, and I find it weird going to places where cane sugar is more commonly used... all the processed foods and drinks taste odd. Not a bad odd, but odd none the less.

[landverhuizer.livejournal.com]

people need to learn just how advanced sugar production had become in the middle ages

I tend to come across more people who believe that sugar cane was very very hard to obtain so almost everyone used honey... which they did use of course.

The one that gets me is the total confusion about the sugar refining process and what people consider to be less refined than white (as in brown) is just as refined if not more complicated to make *sigh*