Wierd menus?

[bunnyjadwiga]

I was thinking about 'what constitutes wierd period food' again today. Once upon a time, we did a feast like this:

On the tables:
* Endive Salad dressed with vinegar, oil, salt (Rumpolt)
* Pickled beets and cucumbers
* Sliced radishes dressed with vinegar, oil, salt (Rumpolt)
* Hard-boiled eggs sprinkled with vinegar and salt (Rumpolt)
* Poached Fish with green (parsley) sauce
* Mustard sauce with vinegar, honey, anise, cubebs, cardamom, salt (based on a reference in Rumpolt)
* Rye and white bread, herb butter
* Candied orange peel
First Serving:
* Pork schnitzels with pepper sauce
* Pea soup with chard
* Armored turnips (Platina)
* Rosemary chicken (from Sabrina Welserin)
* Cameline sauce (from Le Menagier)* & Black grape sauce (Maestro Martino)
Second Serving
* Sirloin of beef marinated in wine and cooked with onions and spices (Welserin)*
* Cabbage with sausage
* Roasted Carrots
* Barley with Mushroom broth and Mushrooms (adapted from Rumpolt)
* Roasted Onions
Dessert Board:
* Sugared almonds (Rumpolt)
* Lemon peel suckets (Rumpolt)
* Tart of Roasted Apples (Sabrina Welserin)
* Pears in spiced wine sauce (Sabrina Welserin) *
* Rice pudding with milk and almond (Sabrina Welserin)
* Compote of summer fruits *
* indicates inclusion of alcohol

and an arts person, wife of a squire, complained later about wierd feasts with pickled beets in them. Now, this feast was as innocuous as we thought we could manage, since we were feeding a crowd that a) had been burned the year before with the all-pork feast and b) were traditionally anti-period-food.

Now, for my money, there are a number of factors that seem to govern what people think is wierd. One is their personal characteristics. Fighters seem to be, in the aggregate, less adventurous eaters; I'm not sure why. Also, people from PA seem to be more adventurous than people from New Jersey, again, I'm not sure why. I've noticed that if I'm feeding people whose normal mode of food is what I call 'Dutchie'-- gloppy food, sweet and sour, lots of dishes-- they seem to be more open to period food as served family-style.

Some people are freaked out by pickling stuff, unusual vegetables, sweet foods that are 'normally' savory in American cuisine. Some of them are actually anti-soup or anti-stew. (Ok, I don't understand that. Two small girls I'm around also won't eat soup or stew, and I am completely wierded out by it, and don't understand how they get away with it...) Glop is not good for them. This may be the American finger food tradition.

What's going on here?

Comments

[danabren.livejournal.com]

I read "anise, cubebs..." as Anubis.

Clearly I need a vacation.

Right now.

[fiannaharpar.livejournal.com]

*laughs*

Brilliant!

[bunnyjadwiga.livejournal.com]

Hm... I wonder if you could make an incense for Anubis with anise and cubebs... and whether he would like it enough to follow it outside...
(well, yes, I'm a broomstick commando, how did you know?)

[fiannaharpar.livejournal.com]

People don't know how to eat anymore. Including me to some extent.

Seriously, people don't understand that food is supposed to have variety and character and not be completely standardized. The futuristic view of food pellets isn't too far off from where we are now.

I haven't a clue what the heck is going on with NJ vs PA, but it may just be exposure.

...and I love you enough to not get cranky about your definition of "Dutchy" food, because if I can ever talk you into coming out to a feast that i'm doing here, you'll see that there is a One True Way, and that way is Netherlandish :-)

[fiannaharpar.livejournal.com]

Oh, and *eels* are weird. Not beets. Dude.

[danabren.livejournal.com]

SAVE ME FROM PA DUTCH FOOD!!!

Salt & pepper is NOT "fancy cookin'", hard boiled eggs do NOT go into corn chowder, and chicken pot pie has a FLAKY CRUST!

*cries*

[fiannaharpar.livejournal.com]

Ahh, Grasshopper, you have confused a bunch of German people with neighbours who don't get their language with The Netherlands. The Nederlanders take no responsibility for those folks.

..and you're right. Hard boiled eggs DON'T go in corn chowder. :-)

[tattycat.livejournal.com]

Or lo mein. *shudders convulsively*

[fiannaharpar.livejournal.com]

Okay, /that's/ just offensive.

What are they *thinking*?

[tattycat.livejournal.com]

The lo mein I have gotten out here is basically chicken broth with spaghetti noodles, festively adorned with chopped white onions and a hard boiled egg. I nearly died.

[fiannaharpar.livejournal.com]

*hurk*
*hurk*
*hurk*

[tattycat.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I've been doing a *lot* of cooking from home. Funny how none of those ingredients, on their own or even in combination, is all that bad. But when you're expecting lo mein and get chicken soup...

[danabren.livejournal.com]

*barfs quietly into a nearby vase*

That is DISGUSTING!!

Rule #1

[bunnyjadwiga.livejournal.com]

Of eating Chinese food in homogeneous locales:
Don't try anything with 'mein' in the name.

[scadian-fairy.livejournal.com]

Oh please tell me they don't do that.... uhhhhh... *turns green*

[tattycat.livejournal.com]

It gets better-- this was at a Chinese restaurant owned by actual Chinese immigrants. I had a little chat with the owner, who informed me that "white people don't know good food." I told her from now on, I wanted what she eats.

My G-d, the difference. It is amazing.

[fiannaharpar.livejournal.com]

My favourite Chinese restaurant was the one my ex-husband worked at all through High School and College, because Mr. and Mrs. Wa knew to serve us the Chinese menu, not the American menu. We did our rehersal dinner there and they did a full-on 12 course Chinese feast for it.

A-mazing.

Sadly, Mr. and Mrs. Wa retired and closed the restaurant a few years back and i've never found anywhere as good.

[scadian-fairy.livejournal.com]

Oh my!
hehe, yes, some of us like good food!

[loosecanon.livejournal.com]

we finally got our local chinese restaurant all trained up, and then we had to move =(

There was *nothing* like the eggplant hotpot, and I dont even like eggplant!

We would walk in, sit down, and 20 mins later, dinner would appear. It was almost like being home.

[bunnyjadwiga.livejournal.com]

Well... if you want chicken pot pie with a flaky crust, you can get it in the freezer case... :)

[loosecanon.livejournal.com]

no, eels are just long. Not wierd. beets are scary, though, especially for my clothing.

[bunnyjadwiga.livejournal.com]

Sorry, Dutchy here means "Pennsylvania Dutch," that is, the local variety of German-descendants; along the way, Deutsch has become "Dutch".

[tattycat.livejournal.com]

*blinks* Except for the pork (which I do not eat for reasons other than "it's weird"), I see nothing complaint-worthy on that menu. But then again, my mother taught me that if I don't like something, don't eat it and don't complain about it.

We get the same phenomena out here with regards to "glop." Only here it's "Mormon glop." High starch, heavy meat, lots of condensed soups and processed veggies and cheeses.

[fiannaharpar.livejournal.com]

So, why don't you eat pork?

I don't eat it because pigs are smart and sweet creatures for the most part. Useful as all get out, but it comes when called by name and has the same intelligence as a dog. Just can't do it.

[tattycat.livejournal.com]

I don't eat pork because of a combination of things. Foremost, I've never much liked the taste. Second was a bad year in 7th grade biology, in which most of one semester kept returning to the topic of parasitology (I am not profoundly squeamish, but can overload). And third was a bad bout of food poisoning after eating some pork something in Korea.

Every once in a while, I can do a slice of bacon. If I prepare myself, Easter ham is not so traumatic. But in general, I stick to chicken and fish.

[fiannaharpar.livejournal.com]

I do the chicken/fish thing as well just for health reasons.

But I do love my beef from time to time...and venison.

[tattycat.livejournal.com]

Venison and elk (wooo! Game in Idaho is awesome!!) are my downfall in my attempts to avoid red meat. Oh, I also have major issues with the meat industry, so I've found a local butcher and a free-range chicken farmer.

[bunnyjadwiga.livejournal.com]

But you know, if you're used to glop, you'll eat it if you're hungry. You may even treasure the memory of some particular glop as comfort food.

[tattycat.livejournal.com]

That is true. I have an unholy fondness for hashbrown casserole and broccoli casserole, both varying degrees of glop.

But you didn't hear me say that. Nope.

[scadian-fairy.livejournal.com]

It struck me weird to think as pickled beets as weird, grew up with them...
But more and more I am noticing a trend towards plain meat and bread diets, preferably, meat in between two slices of bread. Makes me wonder what ever happened to "if you don't see at least three colours on your plate, you're eating wrong"? Guess that is what ketchup and mustard are for :p
the menu looks darn good except the barley... but that is my moms fault, call it barely broth gone wrong, bad exp. *shudder*

[bunnyjadwiga.livejournal.com]

I think most people are increasingly growing up on microwaveable food and whatever major chain restaurants serve... That's the only thing I can think of.

[pedropadrao.livejournal.com]

That's actually getting to be the trend, if I understand what the Post was saying some time ago-basically, as time & other resources are harder & harder to come by for people raising kids, the more they're having to shrink their food variation. It's sad to consider that just as our economy is getting more globalized, our kids are becoming more provincial.

[luscious-purple.livejournal.com]

I was an incredibly finicky eater as a child. Can't explain why; I just was. I didn't want to taste anything that "smelled funny" or "looked funny."

Now I'm much more open to new foods, and my attitude toward SCA feasts is, "If there's something you don't care for after you taste it, don't worry, there's plenty of other stuff to eat." Even if it's something I wouldn't cook for myself, like vegetables cooked in honey, I'll eat it to feel "in period."

I draw the line at beets, though. Bleah!

And I suspect that some adults, even in the SCA, still share my childhood mindset....

Beets

[bunnyjadwiga.livejournal.com]

Beets are one of those wierd things, like mushrooms and liver. Not everyone will eat 'em, and that doesn't bother me. What really rung my bell was the claim that there was nothing to eat except pickled beets in the first course. :)

Re: Beets

[luscious-purple.livejournal.com]

Oh, gosh! Even I, the fussy eater, could have made a meal just out of the poached fish with green sauce, the pickled cucumbers, the endive salad and the fresh rye bread, not to mention the pork schnitzels, pea soup with chard and rosemary chicken (yum!!).

But what ARE "armored turnips"? I keep picturing these cute little helmets.... :-D

Armored Turnips

[bunnyjadwiga.livejournal.com]

http://www.gallowglass.org/jadwiga/SCA/cooking/recipes/armoredturnips.html

Basically, boil your turnips, then peel & slice them. Take slices of cheese. lay slices in the bottom of a baking dish. lay in a layer of turnips, dot with butter and spices (mace, pepper, ginger, cinnamon, etc. whatever suits your fancy); apply another layer of cheese, turnips, etc and continue until you run out of turnips, cheese, or room, finishing with a top layer of cheese.
Pop in the oven for 20 minutes or so at about 300, until the cheese melts and gets crispy on the sides. Eat hot.

Re: Armored Turnips

[scadian-fairy.livejournal.com]

I know a lot of people who were put off by the idea of turnips and cheese but would say *most* of us really found it an enjoyable way to eat them! Yeah, surprise =D

Re: Beets

[mamaalanna.livejournal.com]

Reading over the menu, there were an awful lot of pickled things in the first course. Those ping my radar because I don't care for the taste of vinegar; but as luscious purple said, there is always more food at an SCA feast!

[thalionar.livejournal.com]

wow... that sounds pretty tame to me...

Pickled beets are *normal.* Hell, I had them @ the farmer's market restaurant last week.

Of course, I'm all for pickled almost anything... cukes, beets, eggs, meat, green beans... mmmm...

[loosecanon.livejournal.com]

I dont happen to enjoy beets, particularly preparing them.
They dont taste bad, but I have an aversion based on staining. The flavor isnt that amazing to me, so I dont miss them.

The typical person today is probably not used to having food cooked in the home from scratch, the way a feast is cooked, more than 4 times a year.
Our diner might feel uncomfortable if they find that a host had cooked from scratch for them, partly due to being unable to reciprocate, partly from concern over "wierd food" and trying to politely not starve.

Around here, many people opt to socialise at restaurants rather than in the home, even if they are good cooks and like cooking, in order to avoid creating pressure for a reciprocal visit.

NJ has many food-ethnicity enclaves. We find that people order within their comfort sphere, and dont branch out much. There is a comfort zone for food that most people here in NJ respect and dont try to push too hard on each other.

A wedding banquest might have luxury items, but would be carefully tailored to offend as few people as possible.
The SCA diet pushes people's dietary boundaries, daring people past their comfort zones.

A lot of folks might expect a little "Fear Factor" attitude from the kitchen, too. After all, kitcheners and cooks are among very few A+S people who can inflict their craft on others.

Probably more but I am running out of steam.

[scadian-fairy.livejournal.com]

There is something like that here, though a little different... people here are scared to eat out because of the weird foods that appear in the "new" food establishments. Where I live, we have "french food" which means poutine rappe... a small peice of fatty pork wrapped in a ball of grated and mushed potato and boiled... then you eat it. Half of my family still serve this on holidays!
Things like cous cous, lamb... even carrots being roasted rather than boiled would scare that half of my family.

[loosecanon.livejournal.com]

as someone mentioned to me last night as we were discussing this blog entry, someone used to eating a lot of pasta will order noodles at a Japanese or Chinese restaurant, too.
Most people I eat out with "always order" the same or a similar item. It can be difficult to convince people to be daring with their tastebuds. It is harder when we are also daring their preconceived notions on what they like.
The fear for the digestive tract is one I would like to think we have managed over the years.

[pedropadrao.livejournal.com]

Sheesh. I'm not a fan of pickled beets, for various reasons that probably could stand re-evaluation today, but they were just one element of a feast I'd have been happy to dig in to no matter where I was. Now, I'm neither from PA or NJ, but I am a Midwesterner by birth, & we're said to be pretty conservative in what we'll eat.

[loosecanon.livejournal.com]

yeah, but many Midwesterners are still willing to eat what they are familiar with from the family garden. Midwestern gardens are different, more likely to have the staples.

In NJ, the primary garden items are tomatos, peppers, zucchini, squash, some melons and some eggplant. None of these is appropriate for our uses, so it's another strike against the cook.