Politics and Forgiving

[bunnyjadwiga]

The day after the Amish School shootings in Nickel Mines, an lj-friend of mine was unfortunate enough to post a link to a piece of religious-right propaganda about school shootings that's been going around for the past couple of years. (I was, to put in bluntly, rabid in denouncing that document.)

The religious right is still using that propaganda, claiming that it is the dissolution of the moral fiber in this country, especially as evidenced by the 'removal' of the Christian God from the schools, that causes these things. In fact, anti-abortion activist, and father of one of the Columbine victims, Brian Rohrbough went on the air at CBS in the wake of the Amish School shootings to advance that theory. I don't find any evidence that he ever apologized to those whose tragedy he had used-- the victims' families or the shooter's family. A flash presentation from American Family Radio still uses it: "We Kicked God out of the Schools" http://www.afr.net/newafr/wekickedgodout.asp .

But while they still talk on the news about Columbine, Virginia Tech, and a multitude of other schools, they don't mention Lancaster County or Nickel Mines. In fact, the Religious Right want people to forget the shootings at Nickel Mines. They don't fit the pattern, you see.

Not only were both victims and shooter Christian and Christian-educated, in a Christian community, but the families of the Amish victims did what Christians are supposed to do. They forgave. They supported and comforted the family of the shooter.

I just wish I could forgive what was done by the conservative media with the situation.

Comments

[bytchearse.livejournal.com]

Me too, hon. Me too. :-(

[thatpotteryguy.livejournal.com]

I, on the other hand, not being a "good Christian", feel no compulsion whatsoever to forgive. And I won't.

[spikywheel.livejournal.com]

I being a "good Christian" can't STAND what the far right wing does. there are so many places in the Bible that tell us to turn the other cheek, do unto others, serve, lead by example, etc.

Why does that always seem to be forgotten?

[luscious-purple.livejournal.com]

*nods*

I'm a pagan

[bunnyjadwiga.livejournal.com]

And not the best of one at that.

But I still subscribe to the theory that forgiveness, by reducing hate, makes the world a better place-- I'm just so *bad* at forgiving.

[pleasantlyevil.livejournal.com]

Cuz it's easier to believe that all you have to do is accept Jesus as your personal savior to get into the kingdom of Heaven. Forgiving and living peacefully and being kind to others, even those who are different than you, is hard work. Too many Christians are far too lazy to do those things.

G.K. Chesterton said it best

[bunnyjadwiga.livejournal.com]

"The Christian ideal has not been tried and found wanting; it has been found difficult and left untried."

not strictly true, but still apropos

[dr-zrfq.livejournal.com]

Cuz it's easier to believe that all you have to do is accept Jesus as your personal savior to get into the kingdom of Heaven. Forgiving and living peacefully and being kind to others, even those who are different than you, is hard work.

And this must, in part, be laid at Martin Luther's feet, loath as I am to do so given that much of what he said was in reaction to obvious problems that existed at the time.

MHO on your LJ ;-)

[bytchearse.livejournal.com]

I'd like to think that when Jesus does return he's gonna look at all these nutballs using His name and say "Who are you?"

JMHO/IMBFOS

BTW, you are doing a wonderful job by example. Hopefully see ya in a few weeks?

Martin Luther

[bunnyjadwiga.livejournal.com]

Salvation through Grace, as I understand the Lutheran doctrine, is rather more muscular, and perhaps even less hellfire, than the current "accept Jesus, be saved, proselytize" version of the Religious Right.

Re: MHO on your LJ ;-)

[bunnyjadwiga.livejournal.com]

* snort *

If Jesus IS gonna be judging at the end, you're absolutely right. He said so. Matthew 25:31-46. One of my favorite verses.

Re: Martin Luther

[dr-zrfq.livejournal.com]

Luther likely *was* less Hellfire than the current crop. That was certainly the impression I got from reading the 16th century documents and commentary thereupon. (Of course I did; I'm bookish and analytical and the product of a Presby/Catholic marriage.) As it's been a while, I'd have to read them again to clarify what the *original* doctrine read.

Be that as it may, Luther kicked open the door for everyone else, and that's all I was so clumsily trying to say. (The "accept Jesus, be saved, proselytize" idea is at least 400 years old; many of the Puritan sects advocated this, as did some of the Huguenot groups -- at least according to my history books and some further reading as suggested thereby.)

[susannaknits.livejournal.com]

Personally, I was appalled by the media coverage of the Amish school shootings - I remember seeing footage where the grandfather of several of the victims was outdoors at some ridiculously still-dark hour of the morning, and the news crew was pestering him with questions, despite his obvious discomfort with being filmed. And photos in our local paper of women with bowed heads along a fence next to the school - I remember being horrified that these women were there trying to grieve and had to hide their faces from cameras because of the media's blatant lack of respect for either their privacy or their religious beliefs.

But that's a different soapbox altogether. My personal opinion is that pretty much any religion can be taken to extremes, and those out there on the edges are rarely following the spirit of what they think they believe in. See also numerous examples of religious persecution throughout history.

[erikthedane.livejournal.com]

You know, it just makes me wanna throw up my hands.

"Fine. You self-righteous fuckers are absolutely, 100% correct. I'm going to Hell, but at least I won't be stuck with you prigs for eternity"

Organized religion....what's the point?

Re: I'm a pagan

[thatpotteryguy.livejournal.com]

I don't hate them. Hate is too strong a word. But I am utterly without sympathy or fellow-feeling for them; I could see them rendered extinct and feel nothing at all.

I don't bother with hate. But I am willing to edit certain people out of my reality, as it were.

[thatpotteryguy.livejournal.com]

"Organized religion....what's the point?"

Political power. Secular gain. Worldly wealth. Exercise of influence, clothed in the guise of spiritual guidance. Social control.

Shall I go on?

Karl Marx was WRONG - religion is NOT the opiate of the masses. It is the goad used by the few to conrol the many.

Re: G.K. Chesterton said it best

[thatpotteryguy.livejournal.com]

whose Christian ideal? Paul seems to have come out okay, for most of the history of Christianity; "Man is the head of woman", and all that...

[erikthedane.livejournal.com]

Well said.
BTW, I take it the icon is your work? Looks nice. Got a website?

[northernwalker]

The Christian Right tends to inspire two reactions in me: "I don't like your God." and "Jesus is probably hiding under the bed wailing 'I died for *this*?!?!'"

More clogging :-D

[bytchearse.livejournal.com]

I like the belief that Jesus was a Teacher, like Buddha and Mohammed. "Here, let me show you a good path to follow, by my own example. No, wait...No don't follow ME, follow my example. Aw Crap."

The teachings IMHO are sound, it's the followers of these teachers who screwed it up!

bolts of lightening

[stefsoap.livejournal.com]

"It's hard to be religious when certain people are never incinerated by bolts of lightening." -- Calvin and Hobbes

I think the right wing Christians have studied at the Microsoft-Lord Voldemort school of marketing something so much better than the actual product.

And I maintain the hope that (though not an astrology expert) the Age of Pisces gives its final death throws and we move more into the Age of Aquarius.

*snicker*

[bunnyjadwiga.livejournal.com]

"Jesus is probably hiding under the bed wailing 'I died for *this*?!?!'"

I just finished reading Parke Godwin's The Snake Oil Wars in which Jesus pretty much says just that:

"They've spent two thousand years turning me into something out of Oxford or a Tennessee Bible college. Both my parents were Hebrews, I look like an Arab, spent all my life in the desert, and if they let me into one of their nice 'white' restaurants at all, I'd get the table by the kitchen door."

Re: *snicker*

[dglenn.livejournal.com]

Godwin rocks. Did you read Waiting for the Galactic Bus first?

(I also really liked what he did with the Robin Hood and King Arthur stories, but those have nothing at all to do with the topic at hand...)

Re: *snicker*

[bunnyjadwiga.livejournal.com]

No, I haven't read "waiting for the Galactic Bus" -- I had picked up Snake Oil Wars because I liked what Godwin did with the King Arthur legend, and then read the plot summaries of both books and was put off. But I was cataloging my books and found Snake Oil wars and decided to try reading it before giving it away... and got hooked.